I’m always grateful to learn more about Islam and interpretations of the Qu’ran. I do want to suggest, though, that the text you cite seems to be addressed to men. Maybe this is a minor criticism, but I’m not entrusting my equal rights to the responsibility of men any time soon.
I know that many US and Canadian women were motivated to support western intervention to displace the Taliban in the first instance owing to the excruciating inhumane conditions imposed on the females of the nation. As Trump's perfidy restored Taliban strength and violence to Afghanistan and left foreign forces humiliated as they were withdrawn for petty political reasons,, those of us following the debacle immediately understood that the restoration of the Taliban to power would result in the re-enslavement of Afghan women. Enslavement is the correct term. Having no rights to life itself, let alone a life worth living is true slavery. Females are made of no account, mere domestic slaves who can be killed, tortured, with impunity. All this enshrined in so-called "laws" that have no basis in global human rights, nor in any legitimate religion which they claim to represent and promote.
It is apocalyptic to know that the far right extreme fringes of the male persuasion are rubbing their bloody hands with glee to see this model of depravity, actually ruling a nation and in complete control of females, and no doubt plotting to spread their toxic doctrines; even as our own evangelical tyrants screech about their god given instructions to do the same to "free world" females.
I sometimes theorize that the most fundamental division among humans on this planet is the chasm between male and female.
You're exactly right. Enslavement is the correct term. Taliban is treating women as property that can neither speak, be educated, or voice an opinion. Simply there to exist at the beckoning of pathetic violent and insecure men.
NPR was discussing the new anti-women rules in Afghanistan and one of them is to forbid (or strongly discourage) women from speaking loudly or laughing in public. I was reminded of a political candidate who is currently criticizing his female opponent's laugh. Women's visibility and women's joy seem to be an anathema to many, even if they don't claim to follow something in the Qur'an.
If you look at the history of the early phases of most religions, women had prominent places. It seems that as soon as the new religions became "accepted " dogmas and rules put in place by the surrounding governments ( ex. Ancient Rome) caused women to be second-class citizens.
This is the EXACT reason I try to shame yell talking men in my state. In Mississippi, this is a direct trait of white supremacists & christian nationalists.
GOP funded AIPAC Democrats are notorious for the yell talking. People who grew up with it, believe it is normal when in fact it is not. When I can’t talk on my phone over a yell talker or an illegal &ridiculously loud vehicle? You can bet I’m going to shame them. A public employee once called me “baby” & another told me he was a “hugger”. Sexual harassment has no place in public service. You can bet I QUIT!
Peace and blessings (of Allah) be upon him. It can be used for all prophets as well like Jesus, Moses, but it is mostly used for our prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because we have been ordered by Allah (SWT) to glorify him every time his name is mentioned.
I generally hold anti-religion views based on the christianity living in the SW Bible Belt of Mississippi, but I agree with what you’ve written about Islam & women.
In my younger years I read an annotated version of the Qur’an & my sense what that women were to be revered. The Bible, not so much. Could definitely tell the Bible was written by all men. 😂
IMO, religion is simply used as a vehicle for war. Guess what religion has murdered more people in history than any other? christianity. My partner brought up the christian inquisition & he is right.
A few in my experience walk their talk such as the Sikh community when I lived in Milwaukee,
But, for the most part, most of the places we have lived, I have seen people use religion as a crutch that prevents them from truly dealing with their issues & educating themselves on actual world history & deepening their empathy with other humans rather than with the invisible deities. The most hate filled people I’ve ever met, have often been religious to a cult.
I have noticed less & less stories appearing about Afghan women. I imagine in this election year, Republicans & Democrats prefer to sweep Afghan women under the rug. It is indeed our country, the USA, that is directly responsible for the loss of their civil rights & reasons to exist at all, dare I say. Even during Covid we had access to education, community, etc. Imagine being on lockdown without any of that for the rest of your life.
I had similar experience growing up in Austin, where the church my mother took me to had leadership that led the congregation to believe what happened at My Lai was OK with Jesus. Their vile, racist and generally right wing and Zionist beliefs overwhelmed whatever belief they may have had in the spirit of true Christianity. In keeping with what Qasim has said, that Muslims cannot be all represented as one monolith, the same is true about people who call themselves Christians. There are good, loving and righteous Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and those with different religious beliefs. But they all have those that are not: those who cheat, lie, steal, kill, or whatever it takes to manipulate people to promote their own evil beliefs. Netanyahu comes to mind about one of the evil ones. Donald Trump is another, along with many representatives of the US government over the years, in both parties.
Friendly professor & teacher of comparative religion here. First, thanks for writing this article. I'm a second-wave feminist, and seeing women and girls treated so callously really bothers me. In fact, I recently posted something on social media about the situation in Afghanistan, and it got more than 45,000 views. So, here's what I don't understand: why the silence about it from the leaders of other Muslim countries? Are they okay with the teachings of Islam being distorted, as these women and girls are totally marginalized? And why the lack of outrage from the media, both in the US and world-wide? Afghan women and girls are being deprived of their futures and their very humanity, yet the response from allegedly moderate Muslim countries is ... [crickets]. I just don't get it. Can you explain?
I can't speak to why certain Muslim leaders are silent. I think part of it is recognizing that Muslims are not a monolith and it's unfair to ask every Muslim to speak up for every Muslim related thing that ever happens. Another part of it is Muslim leadership absolutely must do better. No doubt about it. As for me, I'm not shy about condemning these injustices. I always have and always will.
I hope my post didn't seem like I was expecting every Muslim to speak up for everything wrong in every other Muslim country. All I meant was that it seems wrong for leaders of neighboring countries not to speak up. Frankly, this level of injustice is something that everyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, should condemn. But in the case of the leaders of the nearby Muslim countries, they have an opportunity to set a positive example, by standing up for the rights of the oppressed (in this case, Afghan women and girls). Why let the extremists win? Why let women be casualties to the Taliban's bizarre interpretation of Islam? I'm just puzzled that there hasn't been a stronger response from those neighboring countries. Forgive me if my comment came out wrong. And again, thanks for all that you are doing.
Qasim, everyone who follows you is very familiar with your respect for women, your sense of love, your profound respect, and your grace. The problem, as described by Donna Harper, is that until this post, it seemed as if it was just you. People who have not read the Qur'an (guilty) have no reason to know that this view came from the Prophet, and should be prevalent among all Muslims. You are the only Muslim I know of who ever expounded, or repeated, this view. And as RiverCoastJane points out (although she was talking about combativeness in general, and not just misogyny), it's not only Muslims who commonly APPEAR to have disdain for women. The same is true of Jews and Christians.
To be honest I don’t frequent your writing - partially because I get turned off by the “blame the west” trope. I don’t mean that as an insult, just an observation of my own reactions … I don’t think it is reasonable to claim there is no basis in Islam for the actions of the Taliban when the worst expressions of the faith are so incredible awful and could be described as common in Muslim countries.
I had a Muslim friend who once lamented the lack of a liberal movement in the Muslim world. Seems like it’s a good time for that kind of thing. However I would imagine it would be scary for Muslims to loudly advocate this … to do so is agreeing to risk your life.
I forgot to mention that as much as I like and deeply respect Qasim, what I have seen in the world that is available to me led me to conclude that Muslims were misogynistic. I told that to Qasim. As I said, my experience is extremely limited (I do not know Qasim and his family personally), and I consider myself proven wrong. The way not to look at it that way is to think Qasim is making up what he wrote in this post, and I do not for an instant believe that what he said was a manipulative invention.
To clarify - I don’t think Qasim is lying or manipulating - I think he is explaining his faith as he understands it.
I am not Muslim - and have not studied the religion. And yes I’m a woman with children and of course I want to be treated with dignity and respect. I like that you think women are smarter than men lol but I don’t think it’s a race (I mean, yes, of course women are better but men serve a purpose too haha)
My context is this - I was in college when 9/11 happened and like many of my left of center persuasion I was very worried about an “islamophobic” backlash. I am not religious and at the time considered myself anti-religious but also thought it was important to not give in to some kind of racism over a minority religion practiced by mostly non-Caucasian people (like I said, college). But also, it was difficult for my liberal western mind to comprehend a belief in a divinely righteous suicide pact. I was very sure - at the time and for years after - that there had to be a different explanation. Families of the terrorists were compromised, the men who flew the planes needed money, they were consumed by hate for the west, suicide bombers were intellectually disabled or coerced or etc etc etc … anything but the idea that a righteous motivation drove a person to commit the most violent act possible to honor their faith and leave this world a martyr, excited to take their place in heaven - the existence that really matters. That made no sense to me. It is a difficult thing for a liberal secular mind to understand.
I believe it now. The believers who attacked and murdered journalists at Charlie Hebdo, the believers who behead infidels and gays, the believers who participate in honor killings, the believer who stabbed Salman Rushdie, Isis, the Taliban, Hamas, Houthis, the list goes on and on - you may say these groups only exist in a specific context or in a reaction to the west. I say it doesn’t matter. And I don’t strip them of their agency to make decisions and come up with their own culture by blaming it on the west or anything else.
When you look at the Muslim world now, the track record with women is not good. Alot of it is like Gilead - beating women up for not adhering to a dress code.
Now it is entirely possible that culture and religion are different - right? That whatever misogyny exists in Muslim countries is a failing of man and very difficult to defend through their religious texts. But they do it. Mosques are sex segregated and I don’t think women can be clerics .. though I may be wrong. Anyways this is of course a very brief.
And as for the west being responsible for militant regressive Islam - I mean, the Ottoman Empire wasn’t great for non Muslims and Muhammad himself was a pretty violent dude …
Anyways, I don’t think I’m being a bigot by pointing this out. Or saying I don’t want to live that way. I can - in the same breath - say all the Muslims I know are absolutely lovely and I think they contribute greatly to the fabric of our country.
In any case, I ramble - if Qasim thinks the Taliban shouldn’t call themselves Muslim then he has a problem with them - not the west. I would rather focus on that.
You're very generous to stay in this conversation.
As I said, Qasim wasn't interpreting Islam according to his understanding. He was quoting the Qur'an. You and I don't care about bibles and religion, but Qasim does. Quoting the source is the best that can be done.
I sort of think women are smarter than men, and I sort of know they are. Some guy snapped back at me over this a couple of years ago, and I didn't feel like getting into an argument, but he said men were smarter, because women "can't focus." What I would have said to him is that that's why they're smarter. They have maternal or nesting instincts, and they take into account more than men do. It makes them smarter. But they're socialized to act as if they're less smart. Decades ago (I'm a lot older than you are), someone did a study of school girls learning math. In all-girl classes, the girls learned very well. In co-ed classes, the girls learned less well than did the boys. The girls unconsciously inhibited themselves and dumbed themselves down. Did you see the movie about the African American women doing math for the DoD? I don't remember the name of the movie.
9/11 wasn't committed by all Muslims. There are groups, like there are groups of Jews or Christians. They're not the same. (That's one way we know the whole religion thing is invented. If it was real, everyone would know it and be on the same page.) We somehow figured out, or the Cheney/Bush administration told us they figured out, that the culpable group were mostly in Saudi Arabia (but we weren't going to attack them, because we wanted peace with them, so we could get their oil) and Afghanistan. But we couldn't find Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So we settled on pretending the culpable group were in Iraq. Watch Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." Iraqis were shocked. They hadn't done anything. But we pretended all Muslims were the same, all had the same agenda.
I am virulently anti-religious, and further, I don't understand equating religion with race. (Qasim just did a podcast conversation with some woman who was black and Jewish.) The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11 were not standard issue Muslims, and they certainly do not understand (have never read?) the Qur'an. I'm encouraging you: if Qasim tells you something is a fact, assume he's right. The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11, or the attack on Charlie Hebdo, or on Salman Rushdie, etc, are the same enraged people as "white" Christian nationalists. None of them know what they're talking about, and none of them are the "originalists" they tell themselves they are.
As I said, I agree with you that the Muslim world AS I CAN SEE IT(!) does not appear to treat women well. Assume they are wrong, they got it wrong, and they listen to the wrong people instead of reading their own scripture. Read Qasim's post (this one). Qasim is a remarkably smart guy, he's very devout, and he's a human rights lawyer. Assume he's right, since you didn't read the Qur'an like I didn't read the Qur'an.
Yes, assume that what you object to in the Muslim world is a failing of people, and not a failing of Islam. You'll find exactly the same thing here. Where in what bible does it say that girls who are raped should give birth to the result of the rape (or that they should be raped), or that women or doctors should be treated as criminals and punished for pursuing abortion? And if "be fruitful, and multiply" means that birth control is a bad thing, why don't believers have 15-20 children, representing every time the woman is fertile? They manipulate and make up their own rules, including making up rules for other people. All I'm asking you to assume is that Qasim doesn't do that. If you want to know how many children Qasim and his wife have, and if they had premarital sex, and if they've ever had reason to have an abortion, I have no idea. Whatever he reveres about Islam is personal. He doesn't impose it on anyone else. And I grant that to all religious people: you can think whatever you want, as long as you keep it to yourself, and understand that I can think whatever I want, too.
I don't remember that Qasim said that the Taliban shouldn't call themselves Muslim. He might have, and I might have forgotten. He quoted for us parts of the Qur'an talking about how the Prophet said women should be treated. As I said before, I think frankly that he was talking to me, because I thought, and wrote to him, what you thought about what looks to me to be Muslim mistreatment of women. As I also said, I now consider myself corrected and shown to have been wrong. Great. I learned something.
I think Qasim is a liberal. And I think the Muslim countries we generally talk about have by and large squashed liberal ideals. Look at the populations of non-Muslims in those places … they shrink and shrink Qasim is also an Ahmadi Muslim (I read on the internet lol) which gives much context to his criticism of the medieval version of Islam we see / hear about. I’m interested to readhis book - The Wrong Kind of Muslim - see @QasimRashid, I should get a like for that plug!!!!
I don’t think Muslims are a monolith - but there are definitely some terrible ideas floating around the Muslim world (must I add the disclaimer all groups have bad ideas?)
As Qasim says, blaming the west should not be dismissed as a "trope." The "west" has made a large number of very bad judgments. We propped up some very destructive dictators simply because they claimed they were against Communism. Qasim is Muslim, and clearly knows a great deal about Islam. But government functionaries and experts in the "west" have every reason to know just as much about it, even if they themselves are not Muslim. The conspicuous "trope" is not "blam[ing] the west." It's blaming Islam in a blanket way. If you know enough about world history, then you know that Muslims have accomplished great civil and scientific (including astronomical) things, and been part of important peaceful movements. One that has ongoing representation is in Spain. I think it was Qasim, but certainly in this comment section, that discussed the marked divergence between Islamic culture and what the Prophet said, and practice in places that are ruled by things like the Taliban. I will tell you that I have told Qasim that my experience is seeing Muslim couples where the man wears shorts and a tee shirt, and the woman is heavily dressed, and has to walk behind the man. And of course, the limitations against the education of women. Qasim did not respond, but I will confide in you that I think this post is his response. And I appreciate it. I do not believe there is any such thing as "god," or that Jesus was the son of "god" and the Messiah, or that there was ever a Prophet whose thoughts came from "allah," and I have never read the Qur'an. So my familiarity is very limited. Not as much any more. I follow Qasim's posts, and I would bet as much money as I have that he is right.
Do yourself a favor, and stick with Qasim's writing. You don't have to agree with his opinions, but don't assume he's wrong about facts, especially if he knows more about something than you do.
Thanks for your reply/interaction - I think what I’m really saying is that people like Qasim - and to be fair, maybe I’m just projecting my own expectations - seem to blame organizations like the Taliban on bad choices of the west rather than, maybe, a trend in Muslim culture. It seems like a “yes, and…” situation rather than a “look y’all - yet another thing the west messed up”
There are insidious beliefs - and just because Qasim doesn’t view those beliefs as legitimate for his religion doesn’t mean there aren’t a whole lotta people motivated by the ideas that are indeed founded in the Quaran.
It’s kinda like the way most Christians/Jews ignore the total absurdities in the Old Testament because they are no longer relevant to society - we generally shame the fundamentalists who interpret the Bible to mean we should kill in the name of God.
So while I totally appreciate Qasim calling out the Taliban, I think he does a disservice to the discourse by saying there is no foundation in Islam for the way they operate.
You don't have to thank anyone. Conversations are what the comment section is for.
As for blaming the west for the Taliban, go back to WWI. Germany was defeated and humiliated. "The west" certainly did the right thing in winning that war, but "the west's" victory created an opportunity for Hitler to find ways to get Germans to regain their self-respect. Which they did with a vengeance. Another thing that resulted from WWI was an artificial partitioning of the Arab world into new countries. I myself would not rule out that this not only destabilized the Arab world, but planted seeds for resentment. If Qasim is right about Islam -- and I don't have a reason to think he's wrong -- then maybe it's right to conclude further that that's where militant and regressed Islam came from.
Qasim didn't just tell us what he believes. He quoted parts of the Qur'an. I don't know if you're religious, and if you believe in and follow any bible, but the Qur'an is the bible for Muslims. Qasim is Muslim. The Qur'an tells him (and all Muslims) that women are to be treated with respect and honor, and given the rights that men have. So that's how he treats them. I'm not sure on what basis anyone would disagree with him.
I told you I don't believe any religious stuff, and I totally agree with you that "most Christians/Jews ignore...total absurdities" in their bibles. (The fact that there are total absurdities, and contradictions, is a small part of why I don't believe any of it anyway.) But there's nothing totally absurd about treating women with honor and respect. That's not fundamentalism. It's very civilized. There's a very small photograph next to your name in the upper left hand corner of your comment. It's small enough that I can't tell, but it looks like you might be female, and next to you is a child. If you are female, don't you want to be treated with honor and respect? I'm 74 and a psychiatrist. I've been around many blocks many times. In my experience, on the average, women are smarter than men. And even if I didn't think that, I'd treat them with honor and respect anyway.
Are you Muslim? What foundation do you believe is in the Qur'an that sets the standard the Taliban follows? If you're Muslim, you should be having a different and more assertive discussion with Qasim. If you're not Muslim, you should believe him.
1. A bit unfair to criticize my writing when you haven't read it.
2. It's not a "blame the west trope." And it's extremely concerning that you'd dismiss something so well documented as western interventionism. Studies from nearly a decade ago document more than 4 million Muslim civilians killed by western bombing. https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990 That isn't a "trope," it's a painful fact, and we won't address these injustices by pretending they don't exist.
1. Agreed - I’m not well versed enough to launch a deep criticism but that wasn’t my aim - I just decided to make a comment after skimming quite a few posts that seemed to share that theme.
2. I don’t pretend those injustices don’t exist - at all. But the history of the world has plenty of brutality by everyone and against everyone. (Obviously not the only aspect of history, of course.)
And we can walk and chew gum at the same time, right? The west has bombed and killed Muslims and Muslim terrorists have been responsible for reprehensible and disgusting acts in recent history in response to cultural productions that make them mad (among many other things) and I’m not sure it is useful to say “well, imperialism pissed people off”
I’m always grateful to learn more about Islam and interpretations of the Qu’ran. I do want to suggest, though, that the text you cite seems to be addressed to men. Maybe this is a minor criticism, but I’m not entrusting my equal rights to the responsibility of men any time soon.
I know that many US and Canadian women were motivated to support western intervention to displace the Taliban in the first instance owing to the excruciating inhumane conditions imposed on the females of the nation. As Trump's perfidy restored Taliban strength and violence to Afghanistan and left foreign forces humiliated as they were withdrawn for petty political reasons,, those of us following the debacle immediately understood that the restoration of the Taliban to power would result in the re-enslavement of Afghan women. Enslavement is the correct term. Having no rights to life itself, let alone a life worth living is true slavery. Females are made of no account, mere domestic slaves who can be killed, tortured, with impunity. All this enshrined in so-called "laws" that have no basis in global human rights, nor in any legitimate religion which they claim to represent and promote.
It is apocalyptic to know that the far right extreme fringes of the male persuasion are rubbing their bloody hands with glee to see this model of depravity, actually ruling a nation and in complete control of females, and no doubt plotting to spread their toxic doctrines; even as our own evangelical tyrants screech about their god given instructions to do the same to "free world" females.
I sometimes theorize that the most fundamental division among humans on this planet is the chasm between male and female.
You're exactly right. Enslavement is the correct term. Taliban is treating women as property that can neither speak, be educated, or voice an opinion. Simply there to exist at the beckoning of pathetic violent and insecure men.
NPR was discussing the new anti-women rules in Afghanistan and one of them is to forbid (or strongly discourage) women from speaking loudly or laughing in public. I was reminded of a political candidate who is currently criticizing his female opponent's laugh. Women's visibility and women's joy seem to be an anathema to many, even if they don't claim to follow something in the Qur'an.
It seems to be part & parcel with religious fanaticism.
If you look at the history of the early phases of most religions, women had prominent places. It seems that as soon as the new religions became "accepted " dogmas and rules put in place by the surrounding governments ( ex. Ancient Rome) caused women to be second-class citizens.
Well said, Nancy.
This is the EXACT reason I try to shame yell talking men in my state. In Mississippi, this is a direct trait of white supremacists & christian nationalists.
GOP funded AIPAC Democrats are notorious for the yell talking. People who grew up with it, believe it is normal when in fact it is not. When I can’t talk on my phone over a yell talker or an illegal &ridiculously loud vehicle? You can bet I’m going to shame them. A public employee once called me “baby” & another told me he was a “hugger”. Sexual harassment has no place in public service. You can bet I QUIT!
For those of us newly learning about Islam (& thank you for this article!): what does <pbuh> signify? (Presumably an extremely high honorific…)
Peace and blessings (of Allah) be upon him. It can be used for all prophets as well like Jesus, Moses, but it is mostly used for our prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because we have been ordered by Allah (SWT) to glorify him every time his name is mentioned.
Thank you for this post. I learned a lot. I always enjoy your perspective.
Thank you for reading, Hannah.
I generally hold anti-religion views based on the christianity living in the SW Bible Belt of Mississippi, but I agree with what you’ve written about Islam & women.
In my younger years I read an annotated version of the Qur’an & my sense what that women were to be revered. The Bible, not so much. Could definitely tell the Bible was written by all men. 😂
IMO, religion is simply used as a vehicle for war. Guess what religion has murdered more people in history than any other? christianity. My partner brought up the christian inquisition & he is right.
A few in my experience walk their talk such as the Sikh community when I lived in Milwaukee,
But, for the most part, most of the places we have lived, I have seen people use religion as a crutch that prevents them from truly dealing with their issues & educating themselves on actual world history & deepening their empathy with other humans rather than with the invisible deities. The most hate filled people I’ve ever met, have often been religious to a cult.
I have noticed less & less stories appearing about Afghan women. I imagine in this election year, Republicans & Democrats prefer to sweep Afghan women under the rug. It is indeed our country, the USA, that is directly responsible for the loss of their civil rights & reasons to exist at all, dare I say. Even during Covid we had access to education, community, etc. Imagine being on lockdown without any of that for the rest of your life.
I had similar experience growing up in Austin, where the church my mother took me to had leadership that led the congregation to believe what happened at My Lai was OK with Jesus. Their vile, racist and generally right wing and Zionist beliefs overwhelmed whatever belief they may have had in the spirit of true Christianity. In keeping with what Qasim has said, that Muslims cannot be all represented as one monolith, the same is true about people who call themselves Christians. There are good, loving and righteous Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and those with different religious beliefs. But they all have those that are not: those who cheat, lie, steal, kill, or whatever it takes to manipulate people to promote their own evil beliefs. Netanyahu comes to mind about one of the evil ones. Donald Trump is another, along with many representatives of the US government over the years, in both parties.
Unfortunately very 👍 true
Friendly professor & teacher of comparative religion here. First, thanks for writing this article. I'm a second-wave feminist, and seeing women and girls treated so callously really bothers me. In fact, I recently posted something on social media about the situation in Afghanistan, and it got more than 45,000 views. So, here's what I don't understand: why the silence about it from the leaders of other Muslim countries? Are they okay with the teachings of Islam being distorted, as these women and girls are totally marginalized? And why the lack of outrage from the media, both in the US and world-wide? Afghan women and girls are being deprived of their futures and their very humanity, yet the response from allegedly moderate Muslim countries is ... [crickets]. I just don't get it. Can you explain?
Great question
I can't speak to why certain Muslim leaders are silent. I think part of it is recognizing that Muslims are not a monolith and it's unfair to ask every Muslim to speak up for every Muslim related thing that ever happens. Another part of it is Muslim leadership absolutely must do better. No doubt about it. As for me, I'm not shy about condemning these injustices. I always have and always will.
I hope my post didn't seem like I was expecting every Muslim to speak up for everything wrong in every other Muslim country. All I meant was that it seems wrong for leaders of neighboring countries not to speak up. Frankly, this level of injustice is something that everyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, should condemn. But in the case of the leaders of the nearby Muslim countries, they have an opportunity to set a positive example, by standing up for the rights of the oppressed (in this case, Afghan women and girls). Why let the extremists win? Why let women be casualties to the Taliban's bizarre interpretation of Islam? I'm just puzzled that there hasn't been a stronger response from those neighboring countries. Forgive me if my comment came out wrong. And again, thanks for all that you are doing.
Now do Mauritania - and every other country where gender apartheid still reigns
I do. Are you new to my writing and advocacy?
Qasim, everyone who follows you is very familiar with your respect for women, your sense of love, your profound respect, and your grace. The problem, as described by Donna Harper, is that until this post, it seemed as if it was just you. People who have not read the Qur'an (guilty) have no reason to know that this view came from the Prophet, and should be prevalent among all Muslims. You are the only Muslim I know of who ever expounded, or repeated, this view. And as RiverCoastJane points out (although she was talking about combativeness in general, and not just misogyny), it's not only Muslims who commonly APPEAR to have disdain for women. The same is true of Jews and Christians.
To be honest I don’t frequent your writing - partially because I get turned off by the “blame the west” trope. I don’t mean that as an insult, just an observation of my own reactions … I don’t think it is reasonable to claim there is no basis in Islam for the actions of the Taliban when the worst expressions of the faith are so incredible awful and could be described as common in Muslim countries.
I had a Muslim friend who once lamented the lack of a liberal movement in the Muslim world. Seems like it’s a good time for that kind of thing. However I would imagine it would be scary for Muslims to loudly advocate this … to do so is agreeing to risk your life.
Mr or Ms Daniels,
I forgot to mention that as much as I like and deeply respect Qasim, what I have seen in the world that is available to me led me to conclude that Muslims were misogynistic. I told that to Qasim. As I said, my experience is extremely limited (I do not know Qasim and his family personally), and I consider myself proven wrong. The way not to look at it that way is to think Qasim is making up what he wrote in this post, and I do not for an instant believe that what he said was a manipulative invention.
To clarify - I don’t think Qasim is lying or manipulating - I think he is explaining his faith as he understands it.
I am not Muslim - and have not studied the religion. And yes I’m a woman with children and of course I want to be treated with dignity and respect. I like that you think women are smarter than men lol but I don’t think it’s a race (I mean, yes, of course women are better but men serve a purpose too haha)
My context is this - I was in college when 9/11 happened and like many of my left of center persuasion I was very worried about an “islamophobic” backlash. I am not religious and at the time considered myself anti-religious but also thought it was important to not give in to some kind of racism over a minority religion practiced by mostly non-Caucasian people (like I said, college). But also, it was difficult for my liberal western mind to comprehend a belief in a divinely righteous suicide pact. I was very sure - at the time and for years after - that there had to be a different explanation. Families of the terrorists were compromised, the men who flew the planes needed money, they were consumed by hate for the west, suicide bombers were intellectually disabled or coerced or etc etc etc … anything but the idea that a righteous motivation drove a person to commit the most violent act possible to honor their faith and leave this world a martyr, excited to take their place in heaven - the existence that really matters. That made no sense to me. It is a difficult thing for a liberal secular mind to understand.
I believe it now. The believers who attacked and murdered journalists at Charlie Hebdo, the believers who behead infidels and gays, the believers who participate in honor killings, the believer who stabbed Salman Rushdie, Isis, the Taliban, Hamas, Houthis, the list goes on and on - you may say these groups only exist in a specific context or in a reaction to the west. I say it doesn’t matter. And I don’t strip them of their agency to make decisions and come up with their own culture by blaming it on the west or anything else.
When you look at the Muslim world now, the track record with women is not good. Alot of it is like Gilead - beating women up for not adhering to a dress code.
Now it is entirely possible that culture and religion are different - right? That whatever misogyny exists in Muslim countries is a failing of man and very difficult to defend through their religious texts. But they do it. Mosques are sex segregated and I don’t think women can be clerics .. though I may be wrong. Anyways this is of course a very brief.
And as for the west being responsible for militant regressive Islam - I mean, the Ottoman Empire wasn’t great for non Muslims and Muhammad himself was a pretty violent dude …
Anyways, I don’t think I’m being a bigot by pointing this out. Or saying I don’t want to live that way. I can - in the same breath - say all the Muslims I know are absolutely lovely and I think they contribute greatly to the fabric of our country.
In any case, I ramble - if Qasim thinks the Taliban shouldn’t call themselves Muslim then he has a problem with them - not the west. I would rather focus on that.
Ms Daniels,
You're very generous to stay in this conversation.
As I said, Qasim wasn't interpreting Islam according to his understanding. He was quoting the Qur'an. You and I don't care about bibles and religion, but Qasim does. Quoting the source is the best that can be done.
I sort of think women are smarter than men, and I sort of know they are. Some guy snapped back at me over this a couple of years ago, and I didn't feel like getting into an argument, but he said men were smarter, because women "can't focus." What I would have said to him is that that's why they're smarter. They have maternal or nesting instincts, and they take into account more than men do. It makes them smarter. But they're socialized to act as if they're less smart. Decades ago (I'm a lot older than you are), someone did a study of school girls learning math. In all-girl classes, the girls learned very well. In co-ed classes, the girls learned less well than did the boys. The girls unconsciously inhibited themselves and dumbed themselves down. Did you see the movie about the African American women doing math for the DoD? I don't remember the name of the movie.
9/11 wasn't committed by all Muslims. There are groups, like there are groups of Jews or Christians. They're not the same. (That's one way we know the whole religion thing is invented. If it was real, everyone would know it and be on the same page.) We somehow figured out, or the Cheney/Bush administration told us they figured out, that the culpable group were mostly in Saudi Arabia (but we weren't going to attack them, because we wanted peace with them, so we could get their oil) and Afghanistan. But we couldn't find Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So we settled on pretending the culpable group were in Iraq. Watch Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." Iraqis were shocked. They hadn't done anything. But we pretended all Muslims were the same, all had the same agenda.
I am virulently anti-religious, and further, I don't understand equating religion with race. (Qasim just did a podcast conversation with some woman who was black and Jewish.) The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11 were not standard issue Muslims, and they certainly do not understand (have never read?) the Qur'an. I'm encouraging you: if Qasim tells you something is a fact, assume he's right. The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11, or the attack on Charlie Hebdo, or on Salman Rushdie, etc, are the same enraged people as "white" Christian nationalists. None of them know what they're talking about, and none of them are the "originalists" they tell themselves they are.
As I said, I agree with you that the Muslim world AS I CAN SEE IT(!) does not appear to treat women well. Assume they are wrong, they got it wrong, and they listen to the wrong people instead of reading their own scripture. Read Qasim's post (this one). Qasim is a remarkably smart guy, he's very devout, and he's a human rights lawyer. Assume he's right, since you didn't read the Qur'an like I didn't read the Qur'an.
Yes, assume that what you object to in the Muslim world is a failing of people, and not a failing of Islam. You'll find exactly the same thing here. Where in what bible does it say that girls who are raped should give birth to the result of the rape (or that they should be raped), or that women or doctors should be treated as criminals and punished for pursuing abortion? And if "be fruitful, and multiply" means that birth control is a bad thing, why don't believers have 15-20 children, representing every time the woman is fertile? They manipulate and make up their own rules, including making up rules for other people. All I'm asking you to assume is that Qasim doesn't do that. If you want to know how many children Qasim and his wife have, and if they had premarital sex, and if they've ever had reason to have an abortion, I have no idea. Whatever he reveres about Islam is personal. He doesn't impose it on anyone else. And I grant that to all religious people: you can think whatever you want, as long as you keep it to yourself, and understand that I can think whatever I want, too.
I don't remember that Qasim said that the Taliban shouldn't call themselves Muslim. He might have, and I might have forgotten. He quoted for us parts of the Qur'an talking about how the Prophet said women should be treated. As I said before, I think frankly that he was talking to me, because I thought, and wrote to him, what you thought about what looks to me to be Muslim mistreatment of women. As I also said, I now consider myself corrected and shown to have been wrong. Great. I learned something.
I think Qasim is a liberal. And I think the Muslim countries we generally talk about have by and large squashed liberal ideals. Look at the populations of non-Muslims in those places … they shrink and shrink Qasim is also an Ahmadi Muslim (I read on the internet lol) which gives much context to his criticism of the medieval version of Islam we see / hear about. I’m interested to readhis book - The Wrong Kind of Muslim - see @QasimRashid, I should get a like for that plug!!!!
I don’t think Muslims are a monolith - but there are definitely some terrible ideas floating around the Muslim world (must I add the disclaimer all groups have bad ideas?)
Mr or Ms Daniels,
As Qasim says, blaming the west should not be dismissed as a "trope." The "west" has made a large number of very bad judgments. We propped up some very destructive dictators simply because they claimed they were against Communism. Qasim is Muslim, and clearly knows a great deal about Islam. But government functionaries and experts in the "west" have every reason to know just as much about it, even if they themselves are not Muslim. The conspicuous "trope" is not "blam[ing] the west." It's blaming Islam in a blanket way. If you know enough about world history, then you know that Muslims have accomplished great civil and scientific (including astronomical) things, and been part of important peaceful movements. One that has ongoing representation is in Spain. I think it was Qasim, but certainly in this comment section, that discussed the marked divergence between Islamic culture and what the Prophet said, and practice in places that are ruled by things like the Taliban. I will tell you that I have told Qasim that my experience is seeing Muslim couples where the man wears shorts and a tee shirt, and the woman is heavily dressed, and has to walk behind the man. And of course, the limitations against the education of women. Qasim did not respond, but I will confide in you that I think this post is his response. And I appreciate it. I do not believe there is any such thing as "god," or that Jesus was the son of "god" and the Messiah, or that there was ever a Prophet whose thoughts came from "allah," and I have never read the Qur'an. So my familiarity is very limited. Not as much any more. I follow Qasim's posts, and I would bet as much money as I have that he is right.
Do yourself a favor, and stick with Qasim's writing. You don't have to agree with his opinions, but don't assume he's wrong about facts, especially if he knows more about something than you do.
Thanks for your reply/interaction - I think what I’m really saying is that people like Qasim - and to be fair, maybe I’m just projecting my own expectations - seem to blame organizations like the Taliban on bad choices of the west rather than, maybe, a trend in Muslim culture. It seems like a “yes, and…” situation rather than a “look y’all - yet another thing the west messed up”
There are insidious beliefs - and just because Qasim doesn’t view those beliefs as legitimate for his religion doesn’t mean there aren’t a whole lotta people motivated by the ideas that are indeed founded in the Quaran.
It’s kinda like the way most Christians/Jews ignore the total absurdities in the Old Testament because they are no longer relevant to society - we generally shame the fundamentalists who interpret the Bible to mean we should kill in the name of God.
So while I totally appreciate Qasim calling out the Taliban, I think he does a disservice to the discourse by saying there is no foundation in Islam for the way they operate.
You don't have to thank anyone. Conversations are what the comment section is for.
As for blaming the west for the Taliban, go back to WWI. Germany was defeated and humiliated. "The west" certainly did the right thing in winning that war, but "the west's" victory created an opportunity for Hitler to find ways to get Germans to regain their self-respect. Which they did with a vengeance. Another thing that resulted from WWI was an artificial partitioning of the Arab world into new countries. I myself would not rule out that this not only destabilized the Arab world, but planted seeds for resentment. If Qasim is right about Islam -- and I don't have a reason to think he's wrong -- then maybe it's right to conclude further that that's where militant and regressed Islam came from.
Qasim didn't just tell us what he believes. He quoted parts of the Qur'an. I don't know if you're religious, and if you believe in and follow any bible, but the Qur'an is the bible for Muslims. Qasim is Muslim. The Qur'an tells him (and all Muslims) that women are to be treated with respect and honor, and given the rights that men have. So that's how he treats them. I'm not sure on what basis anyone would disagree with him.
I told you I don't believe any religious stuff, and I totally agree with you that "most Christians/Jews ignore...total absurdities" in their bibles. (The fact that there are total absurdities, and contradictions, is a small part of why I don't believe any of it anyway.) But there's nothing totally absurd about treating women with honor and respect. That's not fundamentalism. It's very civilized. There's a very small photograph next to your name in the upper left hand corner of your comment. It's small enough that I can't tell, but it looks like you might be female, and next to you is a child. If you are female, don't you want to be treated with honor and respect? I'm 74 and a psychiatrist. I've been around many blocks many times. In my experience, on the average, women are smarter than men. And even if I didn't think that, I'd treat them with honor and respect anyway.
Are you Muslim? What foundation do you believe is in the Qur'an that sets the standard the Taliban follows? If you're Muslim, you should be having a different and more assertive discussion with Qasim. If you're not Muslim, you should believe him.
1. A bit unfair to criticize my writing when you haven't read it.
2. It's not a "blame the west trope." And it's extremely concerning that you'd dismiss something so well documented as western interventionism. Studies from nearly a decade ago document more than 4 million Muslim civilians killed by western bombing. https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990 That isn't a "trope," it's a painful fact, and we won't address these injustices by pretending they don't exist.
And hold up - Fred - though I do agree seems lovely - gets likes and I get nothing! C’mon man! Lol
Ms Daniels,
I gave you a like.
FYI, I am not lovely. I am generally a pain in the ass.
1. Agreed - I’m not well versed enough to launch a deep criticism but that wasn’t my aim - I just decided to make a comment after skimming quite a few posts that seemed to share that theme.
2. I don’t pretend those injustices don’t exist - at all. But the history of the world has plenty of brutality by everyone and against everyone. (Obviously not the only aspect of history, of course.)
And we can walk and chew gum at the same time, right? The west has bombed and killed Muslims and Muslim terrorists have been responsible for reprehensible and disgusting acts in recent history in response to cultural productions that make them mad (among many other things) and I’m not sure it is useful to say “well, imperialism pissed people off”
In any case, I’ll read some more :)