You're very generous to stay in this conversation.
As I said, Qasim wasn't interpreting Islam according to his understanding. He was quoting the Qur'an. You and I don't care about bibles and religion, but Qasim does. Quoting the source is the best that can be done.
I sort of think women are smarter than men, and I sort of know t…
You're very generous to stay in this conversation.
As I said, Qasim wasn't interpreting Islam according to his understanding. He was quoting the Qur'an. You and I don't care about bibles and religion, but Qasim does. Quoting the source is the best that can be done.
I sort of think women are smarter than men, and I sort of know they are. Some guy snapped back at me over this a couple of years ago, and I didn't feel like getting into an argument, but he said men were smarter, because women "can't focus." What I would have said to him is that that's why they're smarter. They have maternal or nesting instincts, and they take into account more than men do. It makes them smarter. But they're socialized to act as if they're less smart. Decades ago (I'm a lot older than you are), someone did a study of school girls learning math. In all-girl classes, the girls learned very well. In co-ed classes, the girls learned less well than did the boys. The girls unconsciously inhibited themselves and dumbed themselves down. Did you see the movie about the African American women doing math for the DoD? I don't remember the name of the movie.
9/11 wasn't committed by all Muslims. There are groups, like there are groups of Jews or Christians. They're not the same. (That's one way we know the whole religion thing is invented. If it was real, everyone would know it and be on the same page.) We somehow figured out, or the Cheney/Bush administration told us they figured out, that the culpable group were mostly in Saudi Arabia (but we weren't going to attack them, because we wanted peace with them, so we could get their oil) and Afghanistan. But we couldn't find Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So we settled on pretending the culpable group were in Iraq. Watch Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." Iraqis were shocked. They hadn't done anything. But we pretended all Muslims were the same, all had the same agenda.
I am virulently anti-religious, and further, I don't understand equating religion with race. (Qasim just did a podcast conversation with some woman who was black and Jewish.) The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11 were not standard issue Muslims, and they certainly do not understand (have never read?) the Qur'an. I'm encouraging you: if Qasim tells you something is a fact, assume he's right. The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11, or the attack on Charlie Hebdo, or on Salman Rushdie, etc, are the same enraged people as "white" Christian nationalists. None of them know what they're talking about, and none of them are the "originalists" they tell themselves they are.
As I said, I agree with you that the Muslim world AS I CAN SEE IT(!) does not appear to treat women well. Assume they are wrong, they got it wrong, and they listen to the wrong people instead of reading their own scripture. Read Qasim's post (this one). Qasim is a remarkably smart guy, he's very devout, and he's a human rights lawyer. Assume he's right, since you didn't read the Qur'an like I didn't read the Qur'an.
Yes, assume that what you object to in the Muslim world is a failing of people, and not a failing of Islam. You'll find exactly the same thing here. Where in what bible does it say that girls who are raped should give birth to the result of the rape (or that they should be raped), or that women or doctors should be treated as criminals and punished for pursuing abortion? And if "be fruitful, and multiply" means that birth control is a bad thing, why don't believers have 15-20 children, representing every time the woman is fertile? They manipulate and make up their own rules, including making up rules for other people. All I'm asking you to assume is that Qasim doesn't do that. If you want to know how many children Qasim and his wife have, and if they had premarital sex, and if they've ever had reason to have an abortion, I have no idea. Whatever he reveres about Islam is personal. He doesn't impose it on anyone else. And I grant that to all religious people: you can think whatever you want, as long as you keep it to yourself, and understand that I can think whatever I want, too.
I don't remember that Qasim said that the Taliban shouldn't call themselves Muslim. He might have, and I might have forgotten. He quoted for us parts of the Qur'an talking about how the Prophet said women should be treated. As I said before, I think frankly that he was talking to me, because I thought, and wrote to him, what you thought about what looks to me to be Muslim mistreatment of women. As I also said, I now consider myself corrected and shown to have been wrong. Great. I learned something.
I think Qasim is a liberal. And I think the Muslim countries we generally talk about have by and large squashed liberal ideals. Look at the populations of non-Muslims in those places … they shrink and shrink Qasim is also an Ahmadi Muslim (I read on the internet lol) which gives much context to his criticism of the medieval version of Islam we see / hear about. I’m interested to readhis book - The Wrong Kind of Muslim - see @QasimRashid, I should get a like for that plug!!!!
I don’t think Muslims are a monolith - but there are definitely some terrible ideas floating around the Muslim world (must I add the disclaimer all groups have bad ideas?)
I should add that religions are called faiths and beliefs for a reason: there's no proof or evidence of any of them; you just have to have faith in them, and believe them, if you want to. What people choose to believe about religions has nothing to do with the religion. It's about the people.
Most people are followers. They prefer to follow strong leaders (who tend to be authoritarian). Hence, Donnie Trump, regressive Imams, etc. "The Muslim countries we generally talk about" are populated by the former and run by the latter. The latter just don't know what they're talking about. They listen to people who are not honest.
Yes, Ahmadi. "The Wrong Kind of Muslim" is like the wrong kind of Jew, or the wrong kind of Christian, or the wrong kind of Hindu. Between you and me, these are all invented. If there was such a thing as "god," and if we were waiting for the Messiah, then everyone would agree, and we'd all be Jewish. If there was such a thing as "god," and there was a son of "god" who was the Messiah, but the circumstances were imperfect, we'd all agree, and we'd all be Christian. (Watch a movie called "The God Who Wasn't There.") If there was such a thing as "god," and there was a son of "god"/Messiah, and later a Prophet of "god," we'd all agree (it would be everyone's known and proven reality), and we'd all be Muslim. If there was such a thing as "god," and a son of "god"/Messiah, and a Prophet of "god," and a "second coming" (Haile Selassie), we'd all agree, and we'd all be Rastafarians. Etc, if you take the Hindu path. The fact that people can choose which path to take, and where to stop on the path, means people are "god." They know everything.
There are terrible Muslims, terrible Jews, terrible Christians, and terrible Hindus. And wonderful ones. It's not about the religions. It's about the people.
Ms Daniels,
You're very generous to stay in this conversation.
As I said, Qasim wasn't interpreting Islam according to his understanding. He was quoting the Qur'an. You and I don't care about bibles and religion, but Qasim does. Quoting the source is the best that can be done.
I sort of think women are smarter than men, and I sort of know they are. Some guy snapped back at me over this a couple of years ago, and I didn't feel like getting into an argument, but he said men were smarter, because women "can't focus." What I would have said to him is that that's why they're smarter. They have maternal or nesting instincts, and they take into account more than men do. It makes them smarter. But they're socialized to act as if they're less smart. Decades ago (I'm a lot older than you are), someone did a study of school girls learning math. In all-girl classes, the girls learned very well. In co-ed classes, the girls learned less well than did the boys. The girls unconsciously inhibited themselves and dumbed themselves down. Did you see the movie about the African American women doing math for the DoD? I don't remember the name of the movie.
9/11 wasn't committed by all Muslims. There are groups, like there are groups of Jews or Christians. They're not the same. (That's one way we know the whole religion thing is invented. If it was real, everyone would know it and be on the same page.) We somehow figured out, or the Cheney/Bush administration told us they figured out, that the culpable group were mostly in Saudi Arabia (but we weren't going to attack them, because we wanted peace with them, so we could get their oil) and Afghanistan. But we couldn't find Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. So we settled on pretending the culpable group were in Iraq. Watch Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." Iraqis were shocked. They hadn't done anything. But we pretended all Muslims were the same, all had the same agenda.
I am virulently anti-religious, and further, I don't understand equating religion with race. (Qasim just did a podcast conversation with some woman who was black and Jewish.) The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11 were not standard issue Muslims, and they certainly do not understand (have never read?) the Qur'an. I'm encouraging you: if Qasim tells you something is a fact, assume he's right. The Muslims who perpetrated 9/11, or the attack on Charlie Hebdo, or on Salman Rushdie, etc, are the same enraged people as "white" Christian nationalists. None of them know what they're talking about, and none of them are the "originalists" they tell themselves they are.
As I said, I agree with you that the Muslim world AS I CAN SEE IT(!) does not appear to treat women well. Assume they are wrong, they got it wrong, and they listen to the wrong people instead of reading their own scripture. Read Qasim's post (this one). Qasim is a remarkably smart guy, he's very devout, and he's a human rights lawyer. Assume he's right, since you didn't read the Qur'an like I didn't read the Qur'an.
Yes, assume that what you object to in the Muslim world is a failing of people, and not a failing of Islam. You'll find exactly the same thing here. Where in what bible does it say that girls who are raped should give birth to the result of the rape (or that they should be raped), or that women or doctors should be treated as criminals and punished for pursuing abortion? And if "be fruitful, and multiply" means that birth control is a bad thing, why don't believers have 15-20 children, representing every time the woman is fertile? They manipulate and make up their own rules, including making up rules for other people. All I'm asking you to assume is that Qasim doesn't do that. If you want to know how many children Qasim and his wife have, and if they had premarital sex, and if they've ever had reason to have an abortion, I have no idea. Whatever he reveres about Islam is personal. He doesn't impose it on anyone else. And I grant that to all religious people: you can think whatever you want, as long as you keep it to yourself, and understand that I can think whatever I want, too.
I don't remember that Qasim said that the Taliban shouldn't call themselves Muslim. He might have, and I might have forgotten. He quoted for us parts of the Qur'an talking about how the Prophet said women should be treated. As I said before, I think frankly that he was talking to me, because I thought, and wrote to him, what you thought about what looks to me to be Muslim mistreatment of women. As I also said, I now consider myself corrected and shown to have been wrong. Great. I learned something.
I think Qasim is a liberal. And I think the Muslim countries we generally talk about have by and large squashed liberal ideals. Look at the populations of non-Muslims in those places … they shrink and shrink Qasim is also an Ahmadi Muslim (I read on the internet lol) which gives much context to his criticism of the medieval version of Islam we see / hear about. I’m interested to readhis book - The Wrong Kind of Muslim - see @QasimRashid, I should get a like for that plug!!!!
I don’t think Muslims are a monolith - but there are definitely some terrible ideas floating around the Muslim world (must I add the disclaimer all groups have bad ideas?)
I should add that religions are called faiths and beliefs for a reason: there's no proof or evidence of any of them; you just have to have faith in them, and believe them, if you want to. What people choose to believe about religions has nothing to do with the religion. It's about the people.
Progressive, I would say.
Most people are followers. They prefer to follow strong leaders (who tend to be authoritarian). Hence, Donnie Trump, regressive Imams, etc. "The Muslim countries we generally talk about" are populated by the former and run by the latter. The latter just don't know what they're talking about. They listen to people who are not honest.
Yes, Ahmadi. "The Wrong Kind of Muslim" is like the wrong kind of Jew, or the wrong kind of Christian, or the wrong kind of Hindu. Between you and me, these are all invented. If there was such a thing as "god," and if we were waiting for the Messiah, then everyone would agree, and we'd all be Jewish. If there was such a thing as "god," and there was a son of "god" who was the Messiah, but the circumstances were imperfect, we'd all agree, and we'd all be Christian. (Watch a movie called "The God Who Wasn't There.") If there was such a thing as "god," and there was a son of "god"/Messiah, and later a Prophet of "god," we'd all agree (it would be everyone's known and proven reality), and we'd all be Muslim. If there was such a thing as "god," and a son of "god"/Messiah, and a Prophet of "god," and a "second coming" (Haile Selassie), we'd all agree, and we'd all be Rastafarians. Etc, if you take the Hindu path. The fact that people can choose which path to take, and where to stop on the path, means people are "god." They know everything.
There are terrible Muslims, terrible Jews, terrible Christians, and terrible Hindus. And wonderful ones. It's not about the religions. It's about the people.
You want another like? I gave you one.