I don't comment to justify the conduct of Israeli's military, but merely to point out a comparison with Hamas. You said, "any attack on an Israeli hospital, school, or residence under the ‘justification’ that Israel hides behind human shields would be categorically condemned." Actually, Hamas attacks Israeli hospitals, schools, and resid…
I don't comment to justify the conduct of Israeli's military, but merely to point out a comparison with Hamas. You said, "any attack on an Israeli hospital, school, or residence under the ‘justification’ that Israel hides behind human shields would be categorically condemned." Actually, Hamas attacks Israeli hospitals, schools, and residences constantly and routinely- it has fired tens of thousands of unguided rockets at Israel's population centers for exactly this purpose. As far as I am aware, the only justification given is that it feels somehow entitled to do so, and even though this is an obvious war crime Hamas seems to believe that humanitarian law applies only to Israel, but not to it. How else can we understand a group that seized hundreds of civilian hostages on Oct. 7th to use as bargaining chips and human shields complaining so bitterly about humanitarian violations by its enemy? One would think this would lead to global condemnation and revulsion of Hamas, but somehow people who claim to champion human rights still view Hamas in a positive light. Why?
You justify one crime with another. This is egregious. At the same time you consider the state of Israel to be morally superior to Hamas. Your state is much worse! Just count the tens of thousands of killed, maimed, tortured and orphaned kids in the last ten months.
"As far as I am aware, the only justification given [by Hamas] is that it feels somehow entitled to do so."
This sentence only makes sense if you completely ignore the following:
- Israel's decades long illegal military occupation of Palestine
- Israel's illegal indefinite detention of thousands of Palestinians without charge, trial, conviction, or access to counsel
- Israel's illegal indefinite detention of hundreds of Palestinian children without charge, trial, conviction, access to counsel, or access to parents, where even as B'TSelem confirms, they suffer physical and sexual abuse
- Israel killing hundreds of Palestinians annually in the West Bank
- Israel building hundreds of thousands of illegal settlements on Palestinian land
- Israel's decade long use of Palestinians as human shields
- Israel's systemic rape of Palestinian prisoners
- Israel's systemic bombing of Palestinians in designated safe zones
I can go on. But the above snapshot should suffice. I don't view Hamas in a positive light. I have no reason to defend them. It's not hard to call their attacks on civilians war crimes, and also recognize they are a *reaction*, not "entitled." One would think the above atrocities by Israel would lead to global condemnation and revulsion, but somehow people who claim to champion human rights still view these actions in a positive light. Why?
Here’s my point. The purpose of humanitarian law is to set an absolute limit on violence, no matter the cause. So no matter how many grievances a group may have, no matter how serious or well founded that group believes them to be, some things are off limits. No targetting civilians, no taking hostages, and so forth. But Hamas seems to feel that its list of grievances is somehow so extraordinary that it should be okay for it to flaunt humanitarian law freely. Similar to what you (and others) just posted, the response when asked why they are doing things like holding civilians hostage and firing rockets indiscriminately seems to usually be a list of grievances against Israel. That is what I mean by they feel somehow entitled to violate humanitarian law.
You skipped 1) no one here is defending Hamas 2) the fact that Hamas is a reaction (and one funded by Netanyahu)
If you’re outraged about Hamas, how are you silent on Israel’s much longer history of human rights violations. You’re defending Israel. I’m not defending Hamas.
Good, so I guess we agree much more than I realized. I had the misimpression that you were defending Hamas, I'm glad to hear that you aren't. I do believe that your list of complaints against Israel is sometimes exaggerated and there are parts of it I don't agree with, but I certainly do agree Israel is responsible for many horrible violations of Palestinian rights that should be condemned and rectified. In general I tend to be more partial to Israel's view of the conflict, but I would never defend Israel categorically or deny that Israel bears much responsibility for the current tragic situation and has done much wrong.
It's important to note that Israel has ALWAYS killed much more innocent civilians and children than Hamas. This is true for every single year since Hamas was founded (and before that). Seeing Hamas as worse than Israel is insane double standards. Israel is literally worse in every way: more destruction, more hostages, more rapes, more tortures and less respect for human lives. Israeli soldiers actually use people as human shields and mass murder children. Israel also holds the world record in murdering of journalists.
Comparing Atrocities doesn't fare well for Israel. Comparing unguided missiles, that get intercepted 99%, fired by a militant resistance group of an opressed population that is occupied and or besieged, and regularly bombed... doesn't really fare well either.
While unguided missiles are to condemn, the idea that this somehow compares in any way to whatever the holy crap Israel does to Civilian infrastructure and UN institutions... not only in the process of bombing indiscriminately, but DIRECTLY. attacking, raiding, blowing up and burning to the ground...
I don't comment to justify the conduct of Israeli's military, but merely to point out a comparison with Hamas. You said, "any attack on an Israeli hospital, school, or residence under the ‘justification’ that Israel hides behind human shields would be categorically condemned." Actually, Hamas attacks Israeli hospitals, schools, and residences constantly and routinely- it has fired tens of thousands of unguided rockets at Israel's population centers for exactly this purpose. As far as I am aware, the only justification given is that it feels somehow entitled to do so, and even though this is an obvious war crime Hamas seems to believe that humanitarian law applies only to Israel, but not to it. How else can we understand a group that seized hundreds of civilian hostages on Oct. 7th to use as bargaining chips and human shields complaining so bitterly about humanitarian violations by its enemy? One would think this would lead to global condemnation and revulsion of Hamas, but somehow people who claim to champion human rights still view Hamas in a positive light. Why?
You justify one crime with another. This is egregious. At the same time you consider the state of Israel to be morally superior to Hamas. Your state is much worse! Just count the tens of thousands of killed, maimed, tortured and orphaned kids in the last ten months.
"As far as I am aware, the only justification given [by Hamas] is that it feels somehow entitled to do so."
This sentence only makes sense if you completely ignore the following:
- Israel's decades long illegal military occupation of Palestine
- Israel's illegal indefinite detention of thousands of Palestinians without charge, trial, conviction, or access to counsel
- Israel's illegal indefinite detention of hundreds of Palestinian children without charge, trial, conviction, access to counsel, or access to parents, where even as B'TSelem confirms, they suffer physical and sexual abuse
- Israel killing hundreds of Palestinians annually in the West Bank
- Israel building hundreds of thousands of illegal settlements on Palestinian land
- Israel's decade long use of Palestinians as human shields
- Israel's systemic rape of Palestinian prisoners
- Israel's systemic bombing of Palestinians in designated safe zones
I can go on. But the above snapshot should suffice. I don't view Hamas in a positive light. I have no reason to defend them. It's not hard to call their attacks on civilians war crimes, and also recognize they are a *reaction*, not "entitled." One would think the above atrocities by Israel would lead to global condemnation and revulsion, but somehow people who claim to champion human rights still view these actions in a positive light. Why?
Here’s my point. The purpose of humanitarian law is to set an absolute limit on violence, no matter the cause. So no matter how many grievances a group may have, no matter how serious or well founded that group believes them to be, some things are off limits. No targetting civilians, no taking hostages, and so forth. But Hamas seems to feel that its list of grievances is somehow so extraordinary that it should be okay for it to flaunt humanitarian law freely. Similar to what you (and others) just posted, the response when asked why they are doing things like holding civilians hostage and firing rockets indiscriminately seems to usually be a list of grievances against Israel. That is what I mean by they feel somehow entitled to violate humanitarian law.
You skipped 1) no one here is defending Hamas 2) the fact that Hamas is a reaction (and one funded by Netanyahu)
If you’re outraged about Hamas, how are you silent on Israel’s much longer history of human rights violations. You’re defending Israel. I’m not defending Hamas.
Good, so I guess we agree much more than I realized. I had the misimpression that you were defending Hamas, I'm glad to hear that you aren't. I do believe that your list of complaints against Israel is sometimes exaggerated and there are parts of it I don't agree with, but I certainly do agree Israel is responsible for many horrible violations of Palestinian rights that should be condemned and rectified. In general I tend to be more partial to Israel's view of the conflict, but I would never defend Israel categorically or deny that Israel bears much responsibility for the current tragic situation and has done much wrong.
It's important to note that Israel has ALWAYS killed much more innocent civilians and children than Hamas. This is true for every single year since Hamas was founded (and before that). Seeing Hamas as worse than Israel is insane double standards. Israel is literally worse in every way: more destruction, more hostages, more rapes, more tortures and less respect for human lives. Israeli soldiers actually use people as human shields and mass murder children. Israel also holds the world record in murdering of journalists.
My list is documented, not my opinions.
Comparing Atrocities doesn't fare well for Israel. Comparing unguided missiles, that get intercepted 99%, fired by a militant resistance group of an opressed population that is occupied and or besieged, and regularly bombed... doesn't really fare well either.
While unguided missiles are to condemn, the idea that this somehow compares in any way to whatever the holy crap Israel does to Civilian infrastructure and UN institutions... not only in the process of bombing indiscriminately, but DIRECTLY. attacking, raiding, blowing up and burning to the ground...
is laughable.
Take your Hasbara elsewhere.
Well said. One would literally need to ignore history altogether to arrive at the conclusion he arrived at.