With the impending invasion of Rafah, an honest look at history concludes the answer is no—and the horrifying receipts of Israel's opposition are plentiful
Israel does not recognize the Palestinian's right to exist, this would be contrary to the goals of this occupation who would like nothing more to absorb the entire area into the greater Israel and extend the borders to Lebanon and Syria. Also acknowledging the rights of the Palestinian people would require adjustments in how things are run there, placing human rights on the table something that is violated day after day. They are not willing to give up the free for all that they are currently enjoying. The incarcerations without cause, and kidnapping would have to stop not to mention torture and rape. The leaders of Hamas at least, will not support the policing of the area and the military presence by Israel. SO, again, I would say no. The want to maintain control over every aspect of the Palestinian's lives if permitted.
It is indeed an excellent question, and a crucial one. In addition, essential questions to analyze the problem are asked. However, and as a corollary, the question of questions should be asked: the mother of all questions: Does Israel have the right to exist? why, indeed, for the sake of honesty, would we not ask the question if we ask it about Palestine?...
The fundamental error, the original sin, was the establishment of a settlement in Palestine. Is not the simplest and fairest solution, failing to suppress the colonial state, to restore the plundered people to their legitimate rights?
It is worth noting that Hamas has implicitly recognized Israel’s right to exist within the 1967 borders by signing onto the myriad Saudi peace deals on offer since 2002. Hamas signed onto this as did virtually all of the Arab world: recognition of Israel and normalization of ties in exchange for a peace deal involving two states; Israel in 67 borders, Palestine in west bank and Gaza. Israel refused this offer several times. And so here we are. So, not only does Israel not recognize a Palestinian right to self determination, it refuses a full and comprehensive peace deal several times over 20 years with this as its premise. Until the west recognized this (it already knows it!) violence is inevitable.
Yes, and the refusal has been tactical, going back to Ben Gurion. Since at least 48 the main zionist groups (Labor, Likud) hoped for a jewish state encompassing all of mandate Palestine. It was realized in 48 that this was not politically possible then. Not having official borders left open the possibility that the hope would be realized down the road, as Ben Gurion often noted. 67 offered another opportunity to expand the limits of the state. This required pushing back against the UN resolutions proposing two states, in effect a repartition. No major Israeli party has ever accepted a two state solution! Ever. Netanyahu is not special here. So, yup Israel has refused every opportunity to outline its borders and the reason for this is that it has ever imagined the borders would expand. The attack on Gaza was at first understood by Netanyahu and his gvmt as an opportunity to remove the Palestinians living there and incorporate Gaza into Israel. At the same time the Israeli attacks on the west bank have been based on the reasonable hope that given enough inflicted tsuris the local Palestinian population would leave or flee. So far this expectation has not been realized, but it lingers as a reasonable hope. And the lack of specific borders is the visual manifestation of this long term Zionist project.
Ralph Nader says the 35000 number is just propoganda. 100,000 precision guided, and block busting, American bombs targeted at civilians and their families have killed more than 200,000 people.
I saw that comment from him. I don't have reasons to doubt when the UN and Gaza officials are saying at 35K but if he has evidence I'd definitely look at it.
Nader took the number of precision guided bombs dropped and multiplied that by a low average number of two people killed per bomb. Netanyahu just said that if Biden embargoes 2000lb neighborhood busting bombs the civilian casualty rate will increase. Not sure about the basis of his math. The Palestinian number never included people in the rubble or killed outside of functioning hospitals- meaning that all the numbers are based on an incomplete accounting.
Israel does not recognize Palestine right to exist. A week before Oct. 7,2023 Bibi posted online a pic of himself with map of Palestine wiped out.. as in NOT On His Map. Does Bibi represent Zionist Israel?! Yes he does.
The most remarkable part to me is Netanyahu is honest at least about this much, that he does not recognize Palestine nor will he ever recognize Palestine. Yet, his apologists insist what he "really" means is the opposite of what he's clearly and repeatedly saying.
It is wonderful that you wrote this well organized picture of the israeli abuses and refusal to ever accept anyone as a partner for peace. This has been Israel's hue and cry for decades, again playing the victim and co-opting the mass media and the official narrative. Your point about Israel refusing to acknowledge the Palestinians goes back to the inception of Zionism when they claimed Palestine was a "land without people for a people without land!" Zionism was always based on its racist ethnic oleansing goal of that ideology. 1948 came with extreme violence and genocidal intent as Palestinians were murdered in the 100's, forceably displaced as the colonists grabbed land, houses, orchards and water with impunity. Israel has been very good at controlling the narrative as it played vicitim. However, even some of that States own writers have called for this to stop recognizing Israel is anything but a victim but a crass and gross victimizer. They will never accept Palestine as a State or event the people as legitimate. How often to we read that there are no such people as Palestinians! What incredible insults!
To be noted, Hamas is a revolutionary movement for liberation and while Israel reacted with its typical disproportionate response to Oct 7, in fact they instigated it with attacks on mosques and the killing of a man just days before. This tactic of Israel has been used to destroy every attempt at peace with the Palestinians respected until provoked but Israel then, using it control of the narrative, simply ignored and claimed victimhood again. The people are suffering horribly but this is not new but now seeks to force the world to see what Israel is truly about and to stand up against its fascism--That State is so like Nazi Germany which many people are seeing and beginning to call out.
I refuse to condemn the Freedom Fighters known as Hamas or their actions on Oct 7. Before that, who was talking about a Palestinian state? Certainly not amerikkka.
To condemn Oct. 7 would mean to condemn israhell for Oct.6, Oct. 5, Oct. 4….don’t make me go back to 1948.
But but but….. civilians were killed! Yes, mostly by the IDF. And killing civilians certainly is no problem for Israhell.
So. Do you condemn the Nat Turner slave rebellion? DO YOU? If so, you were pro-slavery.
Do you condemn John Brown and his uprising against slavery? DO YOU? If so, f*** you.
Do you or did you ever support Nelson Mandela, who spent many years in prison because he was considered a “terrorist”? If you are any kind of human being, of course you did.
Notice that with the exception of our vilification of Vladimir Putin, all the individuals I described were either non-white or fought for non-whites.
Thank you for this. I have been asking this question for a long time - we are so focused on whether Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist - an occupying power built on the ethnic cleansing and massacre of Palestinians-- when time and time again they have, and never asking whether Israel does - as you stated, it does not. We see clearly the double standard applied to people that look like you and me - we are not as deserving of human rights, international law protections, justice, or equality.
You can’t be serious! Maybe it’s a function of the fact that I have a graduate degree in MENA Studies, and that I studied the Zionist terror groups who slaughtered, bombed and assassinated their way to a state from the 1930s onward (not only in Mandatory Palestine but European cities as well) that causes me to view the situation from an entirely different perspective. Israel (or their predecessors) are indeed the aggressors, and Palestinians chastised like petulant children who got their lolly stolen rather than their homeland! Do you think that the right to resist occupation ensconced in the Fourth Geneva Convention was only written for the French Resistance? Why don’t you take a moment from your day to actually study the last 100+ years (including the planning stages of the Zionist state) rather than sound so hopelessly uneducated? Even Benny effing Morris could enlighten you, and he’s a Zionist who excused Israel’s brutality until he just couldn’t look at his work and pretend he was writing about humans. And he left out much that hadn’t been translated from Arabic until recent years. Hold on; it’s going to be a bumpy ride. Western framing has done us a great disservice.
Israel does not recognize the Palestinian's right to exist, this would be contrary to the goals of this occupation who would like nothing more to absorb the entire area into the greater Israel and extend the borders to Lebanon and Syria. Also acknowledging the rights of the Palestinian people would require adjustments in how things are run there, placing human rights on the table something that is violated day after day. They are not willing to give up the free for all that they are currently enjoying. The incarcerations without cause, and kidnapping would have to stop not to mention torture and rape. The leaders of Hamas at least, will not support the policing of the area and the military presence by Israel. SO, again, I would say no. The want to maintain control over every aspect of the Palestinian's lives if permitted.
This is a great piece, thank you for writing this.
It is indeed an excellent question, and a crucial one. In addition, essential questions to analyze the problem are asked. However, and as a corollary, the question of questions should be asked: the mother of all questions: Does Israel have the right to exist? why, indeed, for the sake of honesty, would we not ask the question if we ask it about Palestine?...
The fundamental error, the original sin, was the establishment of a settlement in Palestine. Is not the simplest and fairest solution, failing to suppress the colonial state, to restore the plundered people to their legitimate rights?
Thank you for this. Very well laid out.israel does not recognize Palestine right to exist!
Thank you, Gloria, for reading.
It is worth noting that Hamas has implicitly recognized Israel’s right to exist within the 1967 borders by signing onto the myriad Saudi peace deals on offer since 2002. Hamas signed onto this as did virtually all of the Arab world: recognition of Israel and normalization of ties in exchange for a peace deal involving two states; Israel in 67 borders, Palestine in west bank and Gaza. Israel refused this offer several times. And so here we are. So, not only does Israel not recognize a Palestinian right to self determination, it refuses a full and comprehensive peace deal several times over 20 years with this as its premise. Until the west recognized this (it already knows it!) violence is inevitable.
Indeed, and Israel's incessant refusal to this day to define its own borders adds to the confusion and discord.
Yes, and the refusal has been tactical, going back to Ben Gurion. Since at least 48 the main zionist groups (Labor, Likud) hoped for a jewish state encompassing all of mandate Palestine. It was realized in 48 that this was not politically possible then. Not having official borders left open the possibility that the hope would be realized down the road, as Ben Gurion often noted. 67 offered another opportunity to expand the limits of the state. This required pushing back against the UN resolutions proposing two states, in effect a repartition. No major Israeli party has ever accepted a two state solution! Ever. Netanyahu is not special here. So, yup Israel has refused every opportunity to outline its borders and the reason for this is that it has ever imagined the borders would expand. The attack on Gaza was at first understood by Netanyahu and his gvmt as an opportunity to remove the Palestinians living there and incorporate Gaza into Israel. At the same time the Israeli attacks on the west bank have been based on the reasonable hope that given enough inflicted tsuris the local Palestinian population would leave or flee. So far this expectation has not been realized, but it lingers as a reasonable hope. And the lack of specific borders is the visual manifestation of this long term Zionist project.
Ralph Nader says the 35000 number is just propoganda. 100,000 precision guided, and block busting, American bombs targeted at civilians and their families have killed more than 200,000 people.
I saw that comment from him. I don't have reasons to doubt when the UN and Gaza officials are saying at 35K but if he has evidence I'd definitely look at it.
Nader took the number of precision guided bombs dropped and multiplied that by a low average number of two people killed per bomb. Netanyahu just said that if Biden embargoes 2000lb neighborhood busting bombs the civilian casualty rate will increase. Not sure about the basis of his math. The Palestinian number never included people in the rubble or killed outside of functioning hospitals- meaning that all the numbers are based on an incomplete accounting.
I’d say no.
Israel does not recognize Palestine right to exist. A week before Oct. 7,2023 Bibi posted online a pic of himself with map of Palestine wiped out.. as in NOT On His Map. Does Bibi represent Zionist Israel?! Yes he does.
The most remarkable part to me is Netanyahu is honest at least about this much, that he does not recognize Palestine nor will he ever recognize Palestine. Yet, his apologists insist what he "really" means is the opposite of what he's clearly and repeatedly saying.
I can’t thank you enough, Qasim. I’ve been saying this for years.
Thank you, Samantha. I appreciate you reading and sharing.
If this had been ANY other country other than Israel would the US have reacted differently? You’d LIKE to think “absolutely!!”
That would not be true, though. Need I remind you of the past atrocities around the world that the US did little regarding??
This is a fair question. And focuses the war protests properly.
It is wonderful that you wrote this well organized picture of the israeli abuses and refusal to ever accept anyone as a partner for peace. This has been Israel's hue and cry for decades, again playing the victim and co-opting the mass media and the official narrative. Your point about Israel refusing to acknowledge the Palestinians goes back to the inception of Zionism when they claimed Palestine was a "land without people for a people without land!" Zionism was always based on its racist ethnic oleansing goal of that ideology. 1948 came with extreme violence and genocidal intent as Palestinians were murdered in the 100's, forceably displaced as the colonists grabbed land, houses, orchards and water with impunity. Israel has been very good at controlling the narrative as it played vicitim. However, even some of that States own writers have called for this to stop recognizing Israel is anything but a victim but a crass and gross victimizer. They will never accept Palestine as a State or event the people as legitimate. How often to we read that there are no such people as Palestinians! What incredible insults!
To be noted, Hamas is a revolutionary movement for liberation and while Israel reacted with its typical disproportionate response to Oct 7, in fact they instigated it with attacks on mosques and the killing of a man just days before. This tactic of Israel has been used to destroy every attempt at peace with the Palestinians respected until provoked but Israel then, using it control of the narrative, simply ignored and claimed victimhood again. The people are suffering horribly but this is not new but now seeks to force the world to see what Israel is truly about and to stand up against its fascism--That State is so like Nazi Germany which many people are seeing and beginning to call out.
I refuse to condemn the Freedom Fighters known as Hamas or their actions on Oct 7. Before that, who was talking about a Palestinian state? Certainly not amerikkka.
To condemn Oct. 7 would mean to condemn israhell for Oct.6, Oct. 5, Oct. 4….don’t make me go back to 1948.
But but but….. civilians were killed! Yes, mostly by the IDF. And killing civilians certainly is no problem for Israhell.
So. Do you condemn the Nat Turner slave rebellion? DO YOU? If so, you were pro-slavery.
Do you condemn John Brown and his uprising against slavery? DO YOU? If so, f*** you.
Do you or did you ever support Nelson Mandela, who spent many years in prison because he was considered a “terrorist”? If you are any kind of human being, of course you did.
Notice that with the exception of our vilification of Vladimir Putin, all the individuals I described were either non-white or fought for non-whites.
Think about it.
Thank you for this. I have been asking this question for a long time - we are so focused on whether Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist - an occupying power built on the ethnic cleansing and massacre of Palestinians-- when time and time again they have, and never asking whether Israel does - as you stated, it does not. We see clearly the double standard applied to people that look like you and me - we are not as deserving of human rights, international law protections, justice, or equality.
Indeed, international human rights laws must be applied consistently and equally for them to have the intended value.
You can’t be serious! Maybe it’s a function of the fact that I have a graduate degree in MENA Studies, and that I studied the Zionist terror groups who slaughtered, bombed and assassinated their way to a state from the 1930s onward (not only in Mandatory Palestine but European cities as well) that causes me to view the situation from an entirely different perspective. Israel (or their predecessors) are indeed the aggressors, and Palestinians chastised like petulant children who got their lolly stolen rather than their homeland! Do you think that the right to resist occupation ensconced in the Fourth Geneva Convention was only written for the French Resistance? Why don’t you take a moment from your day to actually study the last 100+ years (including the planning stages of the Zionist state) rather than sound so hopelessly uneducated? Even Benny effing Morris could enlighten you, and he’s a Zionist who excused Israel’s brutality until he just couldn’t look at his work and pretend he was writing about humans. And he left out much that hadn’t been translated from Arabic until recent years. Hold on; it’s going to be a bumpy ride. Western framing has done us a great disservice.
You truly miss the point!
They truly miss the point and they reinforce his point.